I do not place engineers outside of the scientific community; I said nothing of the sort. What I said is that science is an ACTIVITY, not a title. You can be trained and decorated in the sciences, but if you deliver the newspaper every day as your job, you are not working as a scientist; you are a paper-delivery person. Same with the corporate world, if you work as an engineer, you are an engineer, even though you might have been trained as a scientist, you are doing work of a different nature. You are shaping and changing the world around you, there is an agenda that does not consist of curiosity, and you know it (or you're in denial).